#4 - Sheri Kline

Sheri is a Geriatric Nurse Care Coordinator, Elder Care Consultant and End of Life Doula.  Her business Age Well Die Well is how you can find out about all the services she provides. She incorporates her education to include Integrated Holistic Health Coaching and Aromatherapy services into her end of life plans. Sheri fulfills her passion to serve people holistically, by incorporating more than just a medical background. She has certifications in Integrated Holistic Nutrition, Aromatherapy, Polestar Pilates and Doulagivers Specialist Program, as well as being NEDA proficient.

She offers hope, by helping, navigating and coaching people and their families in their end months, weeks, days and hours toward a gentle end of life transition is a blessing that comes with knowledge, support and planning. As you move through the most challenging, intimate, healing, and meaningful of life’s experiences, Sheri is honored to provide the support and knowledge that is often missing in the medically prescribed template provided by hospitals.

Listen to Sheri's story as she shares how her personal experiences, career choices and pursuit of education has led to a beautiful and much needed  service she can provide to any family. An end-of-life doula, also known as a death doula or a death midwife, is a trained professional who provides emotional, practical, and informational support to individuals who are nearing the end of their lives and their families. End-of-life doulas offer non-medical assistance and work alongside hospice and palliative care teams to enhance the overall experience of dying and provide compassionate care.

Phone: (352) 213-4034
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Transcript

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This is Angela Grayson from the Loving Life Fitness podcast. to help others in their fitness journey. It’s All Possible! It's time to wake up. Here we go. Morning, Sheri. It's is loving life now. It's coming at you. We're interviewing Sheri today so that she can tell us a little bit about herself and what she has done in her life already and what she's doing now and where she's going in the future. So Sheri is a geriatric nurse practitioner, worked for the V.A. for 30 years, retired, but that was not the end of her career. She's also a health coach of a service instructor. She does aroma therapy. She also deals with people with their diets and nutrition. She is an end of life doula, which is something we'll go into quite a bit because it is very interesting and I think it is something that if people were more aware of that they would use services from Sheri like this. Sheri. Hello there. How are you today? I am great. And I just want to say thank you for this opportunity to meet you and share what it is we all do here to make the world better. So tell us about your background. Let's go way back to when you started thinking about going into your field Event trusts. How did that all start? Did you have influences and the field? Did you have people that talked to you or did you just strike out on your own and lead your own way? Going way, way back actually was when it did start. You know, you have these key moments along your path and you don't realize they're key until later. When I was in high school, I never wanted to be a nurse because I hate science. I wasn't good at math and I just didn't. I hated the sight of blood. So my grandmother lived with us, though, so she grew up with me all my life. And when I was about seven teen, I was the last one to see her alive. And that particular evening in the hospital, I was with her and she was beginning to experience what now I know is pretty common. When people are in their end of life. Sometimes they see people from the other side coming to meet them and greet them and help them transition. You know, and she was she had no dementia. She was a sharp as a tack. But all of a sudden this evening, she was in extreme pain. And yet she was telling me about all these people who were in the room with us. And I really didn't know who they were. But then it was time for visitors to leave. And so I knew she was due for her pain meds, we'll say, at 8 p.m. And so the nurses said, Well, give her her pain at 8 p.m.. Well, at 815 I was still there and I reminded them, please come and give her her pain meds because she was in excruciating pain. And I said they didn't come right away. And 830 came. And what happened was she had an aneurysm that ruptured. Pretty painful. I asked them again, Please give her something for pain. And they just pretty much they were all sitting around having their dinner, which I know I'd been a nurse for over 40 years. So I just said, please, please give them something. Give her something for pain. They were having their dinner and they told me to leave. So I did like the good little 17 year olds, you know, following the directions. And I left. And I wasn't home very long.

It was about 11: 4:18

00. We got a call. Come to the hospital now. So my mother and father and me, we went to the hospital and it was the first time I ever experience seeing person who their soul had left their body. It was one of the only times, and I've been with hundreds, maybe not a thousand, but hundreds of people who have died. And she had a terrible look on her face. It was of discomfort. I mean, just agony. And so I said to the nurse that was on duty. Mind you, I'm 17 and I really don't know a lot about all this. But I said to the nurse, I said, I am going to be a nurse because I don't think people should have to die like this. I really don't think this is normal. I want to know when she got her pain meds, because in my heart I was just very curious if they had followed through. My mother said, Sherry, be nice. Be a nice little girl. And I looked at the nurse and I just said, No, I am going to be a nurse to help people so that they don't have to die like this. And my little self will take the place of nurses like you. I wasn't trying to be rude, but I didn't know all this stuff either. Then I when I did become a nurse, I worked in the nursery and ICU nursery in the beginning. Soon I went into geriatrics because I just love working with older people. And I realized along the journey that and I learned more and more about medicine. You know, our our normal medicine system, which is great, but it also was lacking. So what was it lacking? It was it was lacking like the human touch and it was lacking the holistic you know, we talk about primary care, but it's not exactly so primary because everything is divided into compartments and nutrition isn't wasn't being addressed or medicines were being complicated and we were giving more medicines to cover up side effects and I just saw so much stuff that I wanted to know more. So I kept going to school essentially. That's kind of where I got up to my retirement. Well, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that emotional time with your grandmother. Well, losing a family member is hard enough as it is. And to have to witness them going through unneeded pain and suffering at the very end of life is so sad for and for such a young woman to witness that with somebody that they love so dearly. You know, that's a shame. And I'm so sorry you had to do that. But at the same rate it kickstarted you on to a career to where you could help others be more comfortable as they grow older and enter to that phase of life where they're at the end, near the end, and then help them cross over that bridge in a humane way. Yes. And years later, like as I got more into holistic help and wellness like movement therapy apparel for many years I worked as I was specialist cardiology specialist, and I got really close with my population. I dealt with for over ten years was strictly their chief complaint or diagnosis was end stage heart failure. And what was so good about that, that is where I learned coaching. I really did. These people felt hopeless. I found out. I realized they were feeling hopeless, and I would have contact with them daily because we were involved with the start of telehealth programs in the VA over 20 years ago. By the daily monitoring that we had set up, we could identify when they stepped out of line. So we could jump in and make adjustments quickly. Rather, it was their foods. They ate the salt, they had the the fluids they were having. For example, one man had a we got him really stable and he was doing better than he'd done in like two years. And when I say better, what is better? He was actually like walking to the mailbox and then he was walking around the block after not doing anything. But it was his birthday on a 4th of July and he had three hot dogs and a huge amount of watermelon, which he had been avoiding, and he had been minding his P's and Q's, so to speak. He'd learned how to manage, but this day he just went all out and within hours he was in ICU and so it was like cause and effect he got to see right away. Just dealing with him on that episode we went through, you know, finding out what's important to people, like what do they really want, and then helping guide them to that. You know, it works with medicine. And then there's also the other part, just giving people hope. Even, you know, if you're on oxygen or something, you still too many times I hear people especially like if they go to physical therapy or something and I'm not putting that down because I've gone, Lord knows lots of times, but having small steps is so important. They don't need to go out and go for a walk around the block if they can go halfway to the mailbox with their RO later, if they're older and sit down and rest and then go the rest of the way, sit down and rest. That's awesome. So I always teach people to do a lot less than they think they can struggle through, and before they know it, they're able to do more. And it takes away that fear because there's a lot of fear involved when someone can't feel confident, say, or their pain holds them back or their shortness of breath holds them back, there's a lot of fear. So a lot of hand-holding goes on. Yes. For the past six months, I've had my 95 year old mother living with me. She lost her husband and I took her in here because she cannot live alone. And I know that when she can't do the things that she wants to do and we're talking about simple things like cooking a meal, working on a quilt that she's been trying to finish because her shoulder hurts or she just doesn't have the energy to put into it. Not only does that hurt you physically, but it hurts mentally. Just knowing that she can't do the things that she used to do and that brings her to tears. And it's so sad. And I try to tell her it's okay if we can't do this today or if we cannot sit there for an hour and do this today. Let's do it for a half an hour and then relax. Put your feet up, relax and maybe you can come back to it later. We'll get in the wheelchair and we'll go for a spin around the block. It's beautiful outside, and let's do something different. The emotional part that is incredible when you get to be an age where you just can't do the things that you used to, but your mind wants to, and I think that is what makes us all so human. Regular medicine. In the past decades, I think, has left off the mind and the spirit aspect of the triad that we are, or the energy like. It just hasn't been appreciated as much as it should. So I do like to you know, it sounds like you're doing a wonderful job with your mother. Thank you. I love how you said you you figured it out because you because you're wise and you have that human connection that you could recognize. Let's back on. We don't have to give it up, but we don't want to push through where it is agitates kind of. Or it makes you feel like a failure. No one wants to feel like a failure. Yeah. So health and fitness is important in so many ways as we age throughout the years and being able to recognize, you know what, we're still able to do what we're still able to train for. My mother trains, in a sense. We do chair yoga twice a week and we do a little bit of strengthening with bangs. We don't have to be real careful not to go overboard because then that agitates the joints. But knowing just knowing when to stop, that's enough. But it's helping to keep you just strong enough to where you can do just a little bit more. Let's talk a little bit more about the nutrition side of it. You said that you're also involved in in diet and nutrition. Do you have any kind of certifications there for that? I went to Institute for Integrative Nutrition. I did go to that, I think 2015 or so, a really good program. I, I recommend it for any layperson if they could grab some of that information. I loved the opportunity. We had like 40 different experts that we learned from. They talk about primary food a lot. That was like their model. I'd say that they started with primary food, meaning food that is made from love. And that's like the real nutrition. There are a lot of us who are gluten free. There's a lot of diets who follow a blood type diet. And some of these things really make sense for everything or for for whoever they make sense for, you know, like everybody is an individual and there's not one diet that works for everybody. We do know that. We know the importance of like sugar and carbs that turn into high semi-conductors and sugar fast. And that is just going to and fuel to the fire for most everybody. So where I say diet is an individual thing, we have to find that out and we have to really respect that. Well, my question is, you mention primary through May with love. Tell me what you mean by that. Okay. Like, for example, when you are in your kitchen and you've gone and you've done your shopping and you're creating your meal and you're pouring your heart and soul into it, you're appreciating the food, you're loving the food, it's eating all restorative kind of energy, and then you feed it to yourself or your loved one. You are really feeding not only, you know, like something that was artificial, but in a package. You are really you've put your physical work into it, you've put your spiritual work into it, and you know your mind because you created it. I love that nobody's ever put food and nutrition in that perspective before. I love that it really feels good. And when you're and then you sit and you enjoy the food, you know, especially if you are eating alone or eating with your loved ones, if you're really like how many people like, say you grace or say a prayer before they eat their blessing, their food? Well, during this whole process, we've been blessing the food and being bread, you know, having a lot of gratitude for it. It feeds our body and our soul, not just, you know, the physical chemicals of the food. And so, yes, I'm very interested in the food. And I never want to tell someone this is the diet for you and go down that road. But I do like to let people know if they're having troubles and they're going to the doctors, they're going to all these specialists and they're still having issues. If you can develop a relationship with someone who trusts you and then you start to bring up some ideas, like how about we go through eliminating some food group and see how you feel? And then all of the sudden they find whatever it was that was interfering with their quality of life. So do you work with all ages of people when it comes to food and nutrition, or are you more in line with the older generation? Yes, I'd say adults on. Yeah. Adults for the most part. And then being adults, I like to remind people to take some of these techniques to their children because that's really key. If you can raise their children to eat healthy and they know why they'll end up, we'll have healthier adults in the long run. Yeah, this is such a fast world. You know, everything we do, we want to do it quick. We want to do it efficiently, but quickly get on to the next thing. The younger generation. So I'm not going to say all of them, but a lot of them. It's just easier to do things quick and easy, get it done or not even cook at home, pick it up already made or fast food or even going out to eat. How many restaurants were they over spice, The food over salt, The food put shutter in it to make taste good. You don't know what you're getting when you go out to eat. So instilling all those habits in the younger generation is so important. Not always easy to do, but because of schedules and children and running gear and running there, there's just so much more going on in everybody's lives these days than the way it used to be when life was simple. All right. So let's talk more about your being a politeness instructor. Do you do any form of holidays with the elderly? Yes, I work with in the end of Life Doula So when I I've been doing classes myself for about 15, 16 years, and about five years ago I took my certification course through Pollstar in Miami. That was a year long program, one weekend, a month for a year. I always went down and a day extra early and that day I spent with the most incredible group of people at the Coral Gables Senior Center. The average age was like 85, maybe 86. Some people would come in with their walker. The criteria was they had to be able to get down on the ground and get up. Now, that was a little challenge, but they could do it. And let me tell you, I was amazed. They were stronger in ways than I was. I just loved it. And then after the morning I went and I worked in physical therapy where they were doing plots. So they were stroke patients, Parkinson's patients and elderly, mostly. That's where I just really fell in love. And I realized that we need to keep advocating and encouraging people to do movement. I do Pilates. I am reformer and chair and Tower and Springboard. So I do all of that. And then I also do Mat and I do roll ology. And I've just gotten certified in melt method with works on your fascia. Really? It's very good everybody. And then getting right back to the your question. Elderly the biggest problem. Elderly have that really puts them in a sedate kind of way sedentary is they fall. So balance and then osteoporosis. So I really, really try to encourage those people. And I love working with people from 50 on up. I love working with 70 and 80, 90 year olds. And just if I can have 50 minutes with them and get them to do some movement that they normally couldn't do. And these tools that I'm talking about, they're like tools that really help them mobilize a little bit more for everyday life. Yes. And so I'm really working on developing classes for bones and ailment because it's so important. That's what I really like, though. Right now. I'm working in St Augustine two days a week, doing a lot of wellness and based aroma therapy and parties of all kinds. And the people are like, I'm 66 and most of the people are older than me that I work with. That's a blessing I find. And then I work here in Palm Coast to have my for myself and the one fantastic aroma therapy. Tell us about the aroma therapy. I didn't give it the value it had or it deserves. It was just a nice, smelly thing. And years ago or so, I had a few aha moments where certain oils did just the trick, like migraine, noxious kind of thing. It did the trick. And I'm like, Hmm, that's really good. What a coincidence. And then a few months later, for example, I got a sinus type which would always turn into an infection and I would be on and yes, I was on antibiotics like six times a year in order to get better and go to work. And maybe this was 12 years ago. And so I said they said, if I do this and this and this, I'll be better. Well, my illness went to 36 hours. It was only 36 hours, and I didn't have to go to the doctors and I didn't have to get antibiotics. And I. Wow. So that was my two aha moments. And then I decided I needed to know why. So I started the study of the science and I went to a program developed by what's called Essential Wellness. It was developed with medicine in the background. It was through a lot of hospitals out Midwest and Vanderbilt Hospital. So I went to Vanderbilt and I learned my enrollment therapy and I still have more to learn. I'm actually in a Ph.D. program right now, and aroma therapy is one of the things and I'm going to integrate it with the end of life work. But like our medicines are often created in a lab chemically to try to replicate the chemistry of the oils of the leaves. The plants are grown and they aroma therapy. The essential oils either come from the flowers or the leaves or the bark or the roots. So we're using nature and we're having a lot less side effects and it works. And if people can have something on their shell and they know how to use it when they need it, like when they get the headache, when they get the stomachache, when they get food poisoning, when their muscles are inflamed, when they feel congested. If they have something, I'm going to show up and they know it's going to help. I just love that. So I'm always willing to share. Take the natural route without the side effects. Why not at least try it and see where it goes? I think so. Your growth path of education is very interesting. You never stop learning and that's a wonderful thing. You've branched into different directions because you can see how it all helps. This not only in the elderly population, but anybody who's willing to try. This is all amazing. I feel like you're an angel. That's dropped on my shoulder because, I mean, it's not always easy dealing with all the things that come up with my mother. I would love to have you come and visit one day and see what's going on with her. Who knows how you can help her to make her a happier person and not have to deal with that shoulder pain because she is not a doctor person. There's a lot of people out there like that. They're tired of going to the doctors and being told a lot of times they want to send them to physical therapy. And I'm a believer in physical therapy, but a 95 year old gets very tired very easily. And physical therapy, it seems like, has worn her down more than helping her. Yes. Just the work of getting ready to go. Yeah. There's so many other things that can be tried. Why not? Especially, you know, with someone that you trust, like you say, earning their their trust. And how do you go about earning somebody's trust with, for instance, like a 95 year old would say to herself, oil, you know, I don't like to be my size, Woody. How is this going to make me feel better? You know, doubtful, because the reviews those things before. So how it how do you go about earning the trust of an older generation? The first thing is just connecting and communicating with the person. Hi, how are you? What's up with you today? I'm Sherry and I'm a nurse. I like to do this or that. What do you like to do? And then inquiring and getting them to talk about themselves. Usually they realize you're interested in them. And then maybe trying to pull out what's important to them, either what they want or what they don't want. And that's really important. And then offering up some suggestions. Are you willing to try? With my patients that I've had in the past, sometimes it takes consecutive times before I know they're ready for something out of the ordinary. So one man I had, he lived alone. He was what you'd call a hermit. And he loved to live alone. And we tried to get him more help. We tried to get him better living conditions, but he liked it the way it was. So we really had to respect that. As time went out and he was pretty holistic when it came to the foods he ate, he was paraplegic from the chest down and he lived alone. So he got this terrible rash. It was terrible everywhere. And I had infectious disease working on him. I had nutrition registered dietitian working on him. I had I dermatology working on him. They just kept giving him medicines, antibiotics and antifungals and just kept giving him things. And he was at the point where we might have to put him in a nursing home for someone to really take care of it, like almost against his will. You know, you don't want to do that. And it took me a long time for him to even let me come in his house or look at him. So what I did was I did get that respect. It did take a while and what I finally said, I really went over his diet and the only thing I could see was some crackers he was eating. So I tried to get him to do a elimination of the crackers, which I thought might have a gluten inflammation reaction with him. And he had yeast. He was putting yeast in a smoothie every morning. So I had him take those two things away. Mind you, this rash went on for nine months and when he took that away within three weeks, he was resolved. It took a long time. He was it was harder than most, but the benefit was so great. And then I started introducing oils with him. Oh, even still, aren't you at that point just by changing his diet a little bit, tweaking what he was doing, very clear to stress quickly at that point, Very little. And that's the other thing. Like you said, how do you gain their trust where you find out everything about them? You know, the harder you dig. It's like being a detective. Then you you know, where two maybe possible changes might help and once again, in our medical world, we don't have time to do that. You know, we're often just don't have the time to sit there and talk to you about your lifestyle, how things are, what you do on a daily basis, and do it. Can you do it? You know, what I find very rewarding is when I can go over a list of medications with patients and find out who ordered what, why they ordered it, and are they taking it right? And then I see how they feel, how it's working for them, because too often there are complications of medical errors that the patient or the person or their health care providers, which are often multiple, they don't recognize that issues. So when I recognize something a little awry, you get that trust and you start calling the doctors on their behalf and you become they're at the care where I call age. Well, again, you get them back to a level where they have more quality of life. That's what's so important that they they live every single day in their best life until their last breath. And that's just what I always really believe. You have the elderly who can't advocate for themselves because they're just not able to. And then you have those who have somebody looking out for them, whether it be a son, you know, a sibling, a child, you know, one of their children who also usually have their own lives, too, and can't dedicate the amount of time that that's needed to get into all these different areas so they can live their best life. So I can see where you are a big value to seniors at all levels of life. Let's talk a little bit now about your expertise as an end up like doula. Now, a lot of people probably don't even realize that there is such a time. So tell us about that. About 22 years ago, as my mom was dying and I was holding her, I felt this wonderful, very intimate, very spiritual, energetic thing happening now, mind you, and then with a lot of dying people. But when this happened with my mom, I was like giving her the freedom to leave. And I was like, What an interesting role reversal. This woman who I'm folding gave birth to me. She was here and she transitioned me into the world. And now I am holding her and she is transitioning her spirit beyond. As this happened, I said, Oh my gosh, I feel like a Dula only an end of life Dragula That was like 20 to 24 years ago. I don't remember there was such a thing, but I said that. I said that out loud to my husband and my father. As time went on and I was with more and more people at the end of the life, it became really real. It was so real. And so I looked around and now these end of life doula courses are popping up all over the place. And I chose one that was developed by a nurse, a hospice nurse, Suzanne O'Brien, and it's called Doula Givers, and she offers a free 90 minute training every single month. And I think it's great for every single person because this is something we are all going to experience or ourselves or for our loved ones. And the 90 minute free training gives us so much teaching. And the whole idea is to take away the fear and increase like empowerment of people to make choices. The reality is death is a human experience. It is not a medical experience. And once you are totally intertwined with the medical system, oftentimes they forget that. So I like to educate people. I like like if I talk to you about your advanced directives in the hospital, we'd walk in, we'd have a piece of paper, we'd get you to sign your advanced directives and maybe name a person to talk on your behalf. If you couldn't very quick, you know, what's your DNR status standard? When I go over something like that with somebody, I like to spend 2 hours times to, like, spend time with you explaining so much and asking you questions that make you think and then come back and spend another 2 hours so you can create a really good end of life way. And there's way more to it than what people think. It doesn't happen like it does in the movies. It doesn't have to be bad. It can be beautiful. And since I've been more involved, I'm often the bearer of bad news. Like, I'll recognize things and I'll say things to people and families, people for their own doctors. Well, but the sooner we get involved with reality, we can enjoy life even as our life changes. And it gives people the opportunity to connect with people better to finish things that are important to them in life. It can be really beautiful and my goal is that it is the best that it can be for people. So many people say that they're not scared of dying, but when faced with a an illness that, you know, it's not too far down the road and you have to make choices and you have to make changes and just get ready. Most people don't do very well with that. Nobody wants to die. We a lot of people say they don't fear death, but can't always go down that road as easily as you think you might. And maybe having somebody to help you go down that road. I like to think of an end of life doula or as I teach families how to kind of doula their family, because in the old days, 100 years ago, that's what we did. We took care of our family. But as we do that, it really allows them to connect with their if it's their one wanting to, you know, like some people may want to be there, some people don't. But I have been with some people who I have. It's really turned into like beautiful transitions. And I've been blessed and just honored to be a part of their life. And usually I'm like, I'll fill in the with hospice. I usually have hospice on board for every buddy because they can get things that nobody else can. But yet, like hospice might come in and say, okay, I'll see you next week or I'll see you tomorrow. And a family needs something in between most of the time, like because things get scary. And so you need to assure them that this is normal, this hurts, this doesn't hurt. If this hurts, let's do something about it. We don't have to wait for tomorrow. We can make that phone call. We can communicate the change that's happening or we can understand because there are different things that happen that get scary sometimes. Like terminal fever, for example. You might feel your person and your person has a fever like 105 or six. It's so much better when someone is there helping you understand it's normal and it's not bothering the person. You know, they're not uncomfortable and you wouldn't be your normal reaction for anybody else having that kind of a fever. It's very different. Yes. And then helping people get through things like when the person doesn't want to eat anymore or they choke so much that they're not eating, that's okay. That's, you know, to let someone know that the body is shutting down and they're not going to be hungry because the body isn't really open to accept food and nutrition. At that point. It would be more you'd have a lot more discomfort they find, if you're trying to digest or if you put food down and they're choking, you know, it's going to create a pneumonia kind of thing. It's really good, I think, to have somebody really support you and teach you and educate you and somebody with the knowledge and the compassion. Yeah, I definitely have been blessed by the people I've been with and I've learned a lot and there's so much energy and spiritual aspects of it. Hard to explain. I hear the ceiling and hear your voice and I see it in your face now and you're definitely getting the message across. Tell me, Sheri, what is the future looking like for you? My future? Well, my family always comes first. Right now, I have three grandchildren. That's wonderful. I just hope to keep integrating my knowledge and sharing it with people. I do death talks once a month. I just want to be open to help people like coach them up and let them know that the movement, the nutrition, the coordinating of their medicines, all these things are so important. And then definitely learning a lot more about energy and the energetic works. B adding that in a lot more because it is so powerful, there's a lot more to this life that we know. So I'm working on being more open and caring and being more open and being surrounded by family and loved ones and who knows where your future might take you. Also, with the education that you are still not finished? Well, enjoying the journey of more education and all the learning that we get from the people that we're surrounded by, the people we work with. If anybody wanted to get a hold of you, Sheri, for anything that you do, how would they do that? H Well, die well. NBC.com Yeah. So I was on there looking at your Web site very, very well done with a lot of information. Makes it easy to get hold of you. There's anybody out there that would like for Sheri to help them in any kind of way. Maybe I can have a conversation with her or shoot her an email. I'm sure she'll be open to you. Anybody about any kinds of cancer sharing? This has been a wonderful conversation. You've really opened up my eyes. I had no idea that there was such a thing as an end of life doula So much more than the end of life before the death life, not only for the person who's going through it, but also their families, loved ones, friends. And you're there for everybody. And that's an amazing thing. I really appreciate you allowing me to go over all this and and I look forward to meeting you in person. Yes. Yes, we will have to do that. I'll be in touch with you so that we can do that. And I'll have you come over and meet my mother, Carmela, this amazing woman. Okay. I would love so much for sharing today. And this is Angela Bracelin from the Loving Life Fitness podcast to help others in their fitness journey. All this time going to here we go.